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	<title>Comments on: Power to Weight: Your Stance vs Antoine&#8217;s</title>
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	<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/</link>
	<description>A weblog about high performance windsurfing.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-408</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the advice. From ya'lls comments probably the best thing for me to do is move back to long board riding. Not having time to train is a big deal and a race board and sail would be ridden more often. Thanks again

Frank from Texas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the advice. From ya&#8217;lls comments probably the best thing for me to do is move back to long board riding. Not having time to train is a big deal and a race board and sail would be ridden more often. Thanks again</p>
<p>Frank from Texas</p>
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		<title>By: Sean OBrien</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean OBrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-322</guid>
		<description>@ Frank - I agree with JW, it might be a gear issue.

After the 147, the 158/159 got a little wider in the tail and then the 160/161/162 got even wider again. This extra width means you are standing even further away from the fin and can get more leverage against the rig. More leverage means you can hold on to a bigger fin and more often than not, hold a bigger sail in more wind (simple physics).

Over the 5 years or so of board development the boards have definitely got friendlier and you will most likely find (if you step on a newer board) that a lot of the issues you are having will sort themselves out.

There are other things to consider however; what fin are you using? Back in the 147 days people were using stiffer fins (thank KP for that one!). Today, nearly everyone is using ultra soft fins which are a lot more comfortable downwind as most of them have enough "twist" to de-power a little downwind and stop the board feeling uncomfortable. 

The other factor is sails. Despite Barry Spanier raving about how fast thin luff-sleeves were I believe in the early days he missed the point that it wasn't the extra "speed" the wide-sleeves were getting, it was the extra "stability". Suddenly, people went from having 3 rigs to only using a 10.7m in all conditions. The extra stability in a wide luff sail (especially compared to the flatter 4KP models) will certainly help you increase your windrange and the even newer sails (this year's and last year's models) are again another leap in stability, ease of use; not to mention ease of RIGGING!

My first recommendation would be to investigate an update in gear (doesn't have to be brand new, just something made in the last 3 seasons) but also your strength plays a HUGE roll in your ability to hold sails down in big winds. Doing RSX for 2 seasons I went and worked with specialised strength and conditioning coaches from our sailing association after years of dabbling in the gym on my own. I reckon I'm about 60% stronger than I was before and now I notice on the formula circuit in Australia I can plane earlier than most (pumping is stronger) and I hold down my 11m longer than most (pure strength). While you probably don't want to be smashing the gym 4 nights a week at your age I would suggest maybe picking up some other pastime that would help with arm strength that ISN'T windsurfing ... suggestions anyone??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Frank - I agree with JW, it might be a gear issue.</p>
<p>After the 147, the 158/159 got a little wider in the tail and then the 160/161/162 got even wider again. This extra width means you are standing even further away from the fin and can get more leverage against the rig. More leverage means you can hold on to a bigger fin and more often than not, hold a bigger sail in more wind (simple physics).</p>
<p>Over the 5 years or so of board development the boards have definitely got friendlier and you will most likely find (if you step on a newer board) that a lot of the issues you are having will sort themselves out.</p>
<p>There are other things to consider however; what fin are you using? Back in the 147 days people were using stiffer fins (thank KP for that one!). Today, nearly everyone is using ultra soft fins which are a lot more comfortable downwind as most of them have enough &#8220;twist&#8221; to de-power a little downwind and stop the board feeling uncomfortable. </p>
<p>The other factor is sails. Despite Barry Spanier raving about how fast thin luff-sleeves were I believe in the early days he missed the point that it wasn&#8217;t the extra &#8220;speed&#8221; the wide-sleeves were getting, it was the extra &#8220;stability&#8221;. Suddenly, people went from having 3 rigs to only using a 10.7m in all conditions. The extra stability in a wide luff sail (especially compared to the flatter 4KP models) will certainly help you increase your windrange and the even newer sails (this year&#8217;s and last year&#8217;s models) are again another leap in stability, ease of use; not to mention ease of RIGGING!</p>
<p>My first recommendation would be to investigate an update in gear (doesn&#8217;t have to be brand new, just something made in the last 3 seasons) but also your strength plays a HUGE roll in your ability to hold sails down in big winds. Doing RSX for 2 seasons I went and worked with specialised strength and conditioning coaches from our sailing association after years of dabbling in the gym on my own. I reckon I&#8217;m about 60% stronger than I was before and now I notice on the formula circuit in Australia I can plane earlier than most (pumping is stronger) and I hold down my 11m longer than most (pure strength). While you probably don&#8217;t want to be smashing the gym 4 nights a week at your age I would suggest maybe picking up some other pastime that would help with arm strength that ISN&#8217;T windsurfing &#8230; suggestions anyone??</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-313</guid>
		<description>Hello Frank,

Sorry to say but the F147 isn't the best downwind board. Off course the downwind in chop like you describe is a though challenge on most formula gear but the 147 doesn't help a lot here. Does it need to change? Well mayby not maybe yes, it is not my call.

What I'm curious about is the windstrenght you refer to when going boucing form one side to the other?? It is somewhat hard to imagine but a too flat or small sail is not helping also. Maybe you are not going full focus downwind? Just let us know a bit more, please.

Jan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Frank,</p>
<p>Sorry to say but the F147 isn&#8217;t the best downwind board. Off course the downwind in chop like you describe is a though challenge on most formula gear but the 147 doesn&#8217;t help a lot here. Does it need to change? Well mayby not maybe yes, it is not my call.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m curious about is the windstrenght you refer to when going boucing form one side to the other?? It is somewhat hard to imagine but a too flat or small sail is not helping also. Maybe you are not going full focus downwind? Just let us know a bit more, please.</p>
<p>Jan</p>
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		<title>By: Frank  Peebles</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank  Peebles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-311</guid>
		<description>How do you figure the drops between sail sizes for different weights? I am 175@55 years old and find that I am over powered in what most regattas call racing conditions. I currently have 11.5 , 9.8 ,and 8.3 nitro 4kp. My board is a f147 Starboard and am fine upwind but get thrown off the from going downwind in windly conditions. Where we sail there is wind blown chop very close together that causes the board to bounce until I loose my ballance. The chicken strap helps but not the total answer.

thanks 
Frank</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you figure the drops between sail sizes for different weights? I am 175@55 years old and find that I am over powered in what most regattas call racing conditions. I currently have 11.5 , 9.8 ,and 8.3 nitro 4kp. My board is a f147 Starboard and am fine upwind but get thrown off the from going downwind in windly conditions. Where we sail there is wind blown chop very close together that causes the board to bounce until I loose my ballance. The chicken strap helps but not the total answer.</p>
<p>thanks<br />
Frank</p>
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		<title>By: Sean OBrien</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean OBrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-180</guid>
		<description>@ wsurfn - My personal theory is that Antoine's extra weight is actually HELPING him in light wind.

For the same reasons as mentioned in this article. Once planing, Antoine's extra weight combined with his great stance - levering out to windward with his body and using a 12.5m (bigger sail than 95% of the fleet) must put far greater pressure on the fin than someone like Steve at 83kg with a 12m. That extra pressure is creating more lift, and probably keeping him planing through the lulls.

Now, the reason why "any" 100kg rider doesn't go fast in lightwinds comes down to Antoine's incredible technique, pumping ability and tactics. For sure it is MUCH harder for a heavy guy to get up to speed out of the corners (tacking etc), so Antoine is definitely at a disadvantage there, but he seems to do well in lightwind regattas regardless (whereas other heavyweights, eg, Micah, Ben Van Der Steen, etc traditionally haven't done so well in super light wind regattas) most likely just because of his sheer skill and experience. 

One thing to consider is how differently Antoine sails in lightwind. At the 2006 FW Worlds in Korea, on the &#60;8 knot day, I followed Antoine out of the startline a couple of times and was suprised to see him pointing very low and going for maximum speed out of the starts. He was obviously just trying to get into clear air and forgetting about pointing, but then when he would tack, he could change gears and go into 'point mode' in the clear air and pull away from everyone. A top sailor will be able to sail in these different "gears", utilising good tactics to get good results in lightwinds. Sure, if he doesn't get planing off the line he will for sure get PUNISHED, cause a 70kg rider will always get on the plane quicker if they're both good at pumping.  

A few years ago when I was sailing with 10.7m as my biggest sail, I could never get a standard R13 to work for lightwinds, yet it was considered the best fin for lightwinds in the Starboard boards and nearly everyone was riding one. I had to go and get cutdown 73/70 R13's to get the same height as the heavier guys upwind (I was 72kg at the time). Now that I'm around 82kg, I've used an R13 successfully all season. This leads me to think that a lighter sailor simply isn't heavy enough to pressure the fin to create the same lift that a heavier sailor can and has to resort to using bigger fins for lightwind. Of course, this is just an example, everyone has a different style and fin choice etc... just something I had noticed in the past few seasons of sailing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ wsurfn - My personal theory is that Antoine&#8217;s extra weight is actually HELPING him in light wind.</p>
<p>For the same reasons as mentioned in this article. Once planing, Antoine&#8217;s extra weight combined with his great stance - levering out to windward with his body and using a 12.5m (bigger sail than 95% of the fleet) must put far greater pressure on the fin than someone like Steve at 83kg with a 12m. That extra pressure is creating more lift, and probably keeping him planing through the lulls.</p>
<p>Now, the reason why &#8220;any&#8221; 100kg rider doesn&#8217;t go fast in lightwinds comes down to Antoine&#8217;s incredible technique, pumping ability and tactics. For sure it is MUCH harder for a heavy guy to get up to speed out of the corners (tacking etc), so Antoine is definitely at a disadvantage there, but he seems to do well in lightwind regattas regardless (whereas other heavyweights, eg, Micah, Ben Van Der Steen, etc traditionally haven&#8217;t done so well in super light wind regattas) most likely just because of his sheer skill and experience. </p>
<p>One thing to consider is how differently Antoine sails in lightwind. At the 2006 FW Worlds in Korea, on the &lt;8 knot day, I followed Antoine out of the startline a couple of times and was suprised to see him pointing very low and going for maximum speed out of the starts. He was obviously just trying to get into clear air and forgetting about pointing, but then when he would tack, he could change gears and go into &#8216;point mode&#8217; in the clear air and pull away from everyone. A top sailor will be able to sail in these different &#8220;gears&#8221;, utilising good tactics to get good results in lightwinds. Sure, if he doesn&#8217;t get planing off the line he will for sure get PUNISHED, cause a 70kg rider will always get on the plane quicker if they&#8217;re both good at pumping.  </p>
<p>A few years ago when I was sailing with 10.7m as my biggest sail, I could never get a standard R13 to work for lightwinds, yet it was considered the best fin for lightwinds in the Starboard boards and nearly everyone was riding one. I had to go and get cutdown 73/70 R13&#8217;s to get the same height as the heavier guys upwind (I was 72kg at the time). Now that I&#8217;m around 82kg, I&#8217;ve used an R13 successfully all season. This leads me to think that a lighter sailor simply isn&#8217;t heavy enough to pressure the fin to create the same lift that a heavier sailor can and has to resort to using bigger fins for lightwind. Of course, this is just an example, everyone has a different style and fin choice etc&#8230; just something I had noticed in the past few seasons of sailing.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Antoine is a very very very good competitor. Only in the lightest winds Steve may 'crush' Antoine, cause Antoine holds down a 12.5 NP longer then any other. So only when the 12,5 becomes light in the hands of Antoine Steve his lighter weight comes into play a role. Just check Calema Midwinters now, Gonzo, beiing lighter then Antoine (as is Jesper) took the victory. 
Off course it is not that simple a weight thing but as soon as the 12.5 of Antoine gets him really going he is a very tough competitor to beat. They (steve and Antoine) both are great sailors and it is in smal things to win so I do not think it is easy to crush one or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antoine is a very very very good competitor. Only in the lightest winds Steve may &#8216;crush&#8217; Antoine, cause Antoine holds down a 12.5 NP longer then any other. So only when the 12,5 becomes light in the hands of Antoine Steve his lighter weight comes into play a role. Just check Calema Midwinters now, Gonzo, beiing lighter then Antoine (as is Jesper) took the victory.<br />
Off course it is not that simple a weight thing but as soon as the 12.5 of Antoine gets him really going he is a very tough competitor to beat. They (steve and Antoine) both are great sailors and it is in smal things to win so I do not think it is easy to crush one or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: wsurfn</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>wsurfn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Explain to me why Antoine is so competitive in even lighter conditions...

Why doesn't Steve crush him in lighter conditions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Explain to me why Antoine is so competitive in even lighter conditions&#8230;</p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t Steve crush him in lighter conditions?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean OBrien</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean OBrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 01:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-159</guid>
		<description>@ Mantas - Yes, harness lines make a big difference.

How the different harness line length will effect you is a lot more to do with personal preference, and your particular stance I believe. 

When I began changing my technique a few years back to get the sail more upright, I went to shorter lines (24-26in) which allowed me to get the sail very upright - but at the expense of not hiking out very far. 

I've now gone to 26in and 28in when its a little windier which helps me hike out more. Everyone has a different way of hiking out, so its hard to know whether to recommend shorter/longer lines and to what affect it will have.

I would suggest getting some adjustable lines and trying a different length. Its amazing what it does for your sailing, always trying new positions/settings etc rather than just staying comfortable in one length for 10 years. You get a great appreciation of what each aspect of your settings is doing for your speed/technique when you change it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mantas - Yes, harness lines make a big difference.</p>
<p>How the different harness line length will effect you is a lot more to do with personal preference, and your particular stance I believe. </p>
<p>When I began changing my technique a few years back to get the sail more upright, I went to shorter lines (24-26in) which allowed me to get the sail very upright - but at the expense of not hiking out very far. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve now gone to 26in and 28in when its a little windier which helps me hike out more. Everyone has a different way of hiking out, so its hard to know whether to recommend shorter/longer lines and to what affect it will have.</p>
<p>I would suggest getting some adjustable lines and trying a different length. Its amazing what it does for your sailing, always trying new positions/settings etc rather than just staying comfortable in one length for 10 years. You get a great appreciation of what each aspect of your settings is doing for your speed/technique when you change it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean OBrien</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean OBrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Ok, we are now on the new server!

Try the gallery now, it should "hopefully" be a lot faster. 

(bare with me if there's a few minor glitches with the site at the moment while I'm trying to remember how to get all the same settings re-uploaded)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, we are now on the new server!</p>
<p>Try the gallery now, it should &#8220;hopefully&#8221; be a lot faster. </p>
<p>(bare with me if there&#8217;s a few minor glitches with the site at the moment while I&#8217;m trying to remember how to get all the same settings re-uploaded)</p>
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		<title>By: Sean OBrien</title>
		<link>http://www.carbonsugar.com/racing/power-to-weight-your-stance-vs-antoines/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean OBrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carbonsugar.com/?p=24#comment-80</guid>
		<description>@ Jie - Great article!

Sukhdev really knows his stuff. There is a great example/photo of how to roll your shoulders in there.

When I get a bit more time over the weekend I will link that article into my article a little more (for the people who don't bother to scroll down this far).

Ps. How's that photo of KP right at the bottom?? Man, those Nitro IV's were sooooooooo FLAT!! haha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jie - Great article!</p>
<p>Sukhdev really knows his stuff. There is a great example/photo of how to roll your shoulders in there.</p>
<p>When I get a bit more time over the weekend I will link that article into my article a little more (for the people who don&#8217;t bother to scroll down this far).</p>
<p>Ps. How&#8217;s that photo of KP right at the bottom?? Man, those Nitro IV&#8217;s were sooooooooo FLAT!! haha.</p>
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