Comments on: Save your back … rig it right. http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/ A weblog about high performance windsurfing. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:48:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: davo http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-70 davo Sat, 02 Feb 2008 03:08:23 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-70 Wow, that last comment is nearly longer than the article! Great post btw, I have seen this technique done before, i think its quite good, as you say, for saving time. Wow, that last comment is nearly longer than the article! Great post btw, I have seen this technique done before, i think its quite good, as you say, for saving time.

]]> By: Sean OBrien http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-65 Sean OBrien Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:29:19 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-65 @ Andreas yes, core stability and strength is very important not only in this downhauling technique but in windsurfing in general. The loads you put on your back and shoulders when you lean the sail down to gybe on a 12m is quite incredible. Pumping an RSX too (but lets not get into that). I wouldve thought the compression would be within reasonable levels as this should be the same motion as doing a squat (or 45 degree leg press if you go to the gym). With the seat harness you are taking the load quite low, around your pelvis provided you dont sit too far upright and then pushing from your leg the quads are really taking the load. If you use the correct rope it really should be no effort at all to apply the downhaul. If you are really straining to push with your legs then I would suggest buying new rope, lubricating your pulleys are even buying a different extension. Ive watched countless girls on the RSX circuit use this technique and generally they are nowhere near as strong in the legs as us guys and yes the RSX sails require just as much tension as a 10.7m RS:Racing. I tested this technique today with a waist harness and now can say DO NOT use a waist harness with this technique as I believe you do put the load on your back as you tend to sit more upright. You could probably get away with it if you put the waist harness on around your hips instead of your waist but a seat harness gives far greater support spreading the load over your backside and strapped around your legs the load is locked in and not sliding around. Great discussions btw, Im hopefully going to ask my PT and physio what he thinks and get a professional (and non-windsurfers) opinion on this. Would be good to know if we really are destroying our backs! For the record, my Dad likes this technique over a crank and he has a degenerate disc and displaced vertebrae in his back (thankfully genetics didnt pass this on to me!). @ Michael yes, you can be quite precise with a crank but it depends on what precise means to you. I used to measure my downhaul in mm to the decimal to make sure I would always rig my sails the same each time I went out, but after a few months I would get complacent about how far my sails have stretched and I also think sails downhaul slightly different (0.5 mms Im talking) if youve rigged them wet on a cool day or dry on a hot day. This was the reason I suggested downhauling sails by feel and then testing them on the water. Most of the top sailors are using this technique because sails can change over time and also you may want slightly different downhauls for wind/water conditions. It takes a while to master, but once youve downhauled it like this for 20-30 times over a few months you will start to feel exactly where the right setting is. Of course, still measure it with your ruler and draw a squiggle on your leech with a pen to where your ideal setting is (make it as easy as possible to replicate!). Another thing you can instantly notice by feel is if your mast is not together. You downhaul and suddenly it feels tight too early. Maybe a cam is not popped on, or your mast is not together at the ferrule by only 1cm. Dont break a mast or squash a cam. Ive crunched a few cams with a crank in my time simply because its easier to downhaul and just keep cranking until its too late. Great discussions guys. Lets keep it going. @ Andreas yes, core stability and strength is very important not only in this downhauling technique but in windsurfing in general.

The loads you put on your back and shoulders when you lean the sail down to gybe on a 12m is quite incredible. Pumping an RSX too (but lets not get into that).

I wouldve thought the compression would be within reasonable levels as this should be the same motion as doing a squat (or 45 degree leg press if you go to the gym). With the seat harness you are taking the load quite low, around your pelvis provided you dont sit too far upright and then pushing from your leg the quads are really taking the load.

If you use the correct rope it really should be no effort at all to apply the downhaul. If you are really straining to push with your legs then I would suggest buying new rope, lubricating your pulleys are even buying a different extension. Ive watched countless girls on the RSX circuit use this technique and generally they are nowhere near as strong in the legs as us guys and yes the RSX sails require just as much tension as a 10.7m RS:Racing.

I tested this technique today with a waist harness and now can say DO NOT use a waist harness with this technique as I believe you do put the load on your back as you tend to sit more upright. You could probably get away with it if you put the waist harness on around your hips instead of your waist but a seat harness gives far greater support spreading the load over your backside and strapped around your legs the load is locked in and not sliding around.

Great discussions btw, Im hopefully going to ask my PT and physio what he thinks and get a professional (and non-windsurfers) opinion on this. Would be good to know if we really are destroying our backs!

For the record, my Dad likes this technique over a crank and he has a degenerate disc and displaced vertebrae in his back (thankfully genetics didnt pass this on to me!).

@ Michael yes, you can be quite precise with a crank but it depends on what precise means to you. I used to measure my downhaul in mm to the decimal to make sure I would always rig my sails the same each time I went out, but after a few months I would get complacent about how far my sails have stretched and I also think sails downhaul slightly different (0.5 mms Im talking) if youve rigged them wet on a cool day or dry on a hot day.

This was the reason I suggested downhauling sails by feel and then testing them on the water. Most of the top sailors are using this technique because sails can change over time and also you may want slightly different downhauls for wind/water conditions.

It takes a while to master, but once youve downhauled it like this for 20-30 times over a few months you will start to feel exactly where the right setting is. Of course, still measure it with your ruler and draw a squiggle on your leech with a pen to where your ideal setting is (make it as easy as possible to replicate!).

Another thing you can instantly notice by feel is if your mast is not together. You downhaul and suddenly it feels tight too early. Maybe a cam is not popped on, or your mast is not together at the ferrule by only 1cm. Dont break a mast or squash a cam. Ive crunched a few cams with a crank in my time simply because its easier to downhaul and just keep cranking until its too late.

Great discussions guys. Lets keep it going.

]]> By: Andreas http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-67 Andreas Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:15:44 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-67 Jason, I'm sure the load is less awkward on the spine than would be the case with a waist harness, but there's still rotation/compression. Of course, when you're doing functional core training at the gym (where you would work with rotation and force that crosses from one side of the body to the other, or where you work with assymmetry to achieve stabilization), you also work with rotation - the difference is that if you're doing that purposefully, you're doing it with good form - and you're not likely to add the compression bit. But when you're hunched over, and you're in that head-space of wanting to get out on the water, you tend to be a little more sloppy - which can then lead to awkward loads on the spine. Of course, the more core work you do at the gym, the better your body is able to protect itself from those things. Andreas http://g-42.blogspot.com Jason,
I’m sure the load is less awkward on the spine than would be the case with a waist harness, but there’s still rotation/compression. Of course, when you’re doing functional core training at the gym (where you would work with rotation and force that crosses from one side of the body to the other, or where you work with assymmetry to achieve stabilization), you also work with rotation - the difference is that if you’re doing that purposefully, you’re doing it with good form - and you’re not likely to add the compression bit. But when you’re hunched over, and you’re in that head-space of wanting to get out on the water, you tend to be a little more sloppy - which can then lead to awkward loads on the spine. Of course, the more core work you do at the gym, the better your body is able to protect itself from those things.

Andreas

http://g-42.blogspot.com

]]> By: Michael http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-69 Michael Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:55:19 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-69 I've used the harness technique described here when making adjustments on far shores. But when rigging, particularly when rigging high-downhaul sails, a crank is capable of such subtlety that it invites you to tune the sail with great precision. I bought my crank thinking "It will be good for my health". What I've found is that it's more important for precision adjustments. Hey, I like the new blog! I'm going to link to you from mine... I’ve used the harness technique described here when making adjustments on far shores. But when rigging, particularly when rigging high-downhaul sails, a crank is capable of such subtlety that it invites you to tune the sail with great precision. I bought my crank thinking "It will be good for my health". What I’ve found is that it’s more important for precision adjustments.

Hey, I like the new blog! I’m going to link to you from mine…

]]> By: jason http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-68 jason Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:52:34 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-68 Andreas, Does that hold true with a seat harness as well as a waist harness? Seems like a seat harness would position most of the pressure against your pelvis rather than your lumbar region. – Jason Andreas,

Does that hold true with a seat harness as well as a waist harness? Seems like a seat harness would position most of the pressure against your pelvis rather than your lumbar region.

– Jason

]]> By: Andreas http://www.carbonsugar.com/technique/save-your-back-rig-it-right/#comment-66 Andreas Mon, 21 Jan 2008 04:49:58 +0000 http://carbonsugar.com/?p=22#comment-66 I'm not so sure about the 'save your back' part of what you're suggesting. Mind you, it's what I do on the water or on the beach if I don't have a crank handy, and it works just as advertised. I still prefer using a crank, however. When you pushing out with your leg while putting pressure on your back through your harness, you're putting a bit of a twist in your lumbar spine while compressing it. That kind of thing happens quite a bit in real life, as well as in windsurfing. It also is, according to PT friends of mine, a pretty good way to put some wear on the disks in your lumbar spine. So why put unnecessary wear on them? Maybe I'm just a bit more paranoid than the average guy - my dad had a pretty bad case of a ruptured disk that nearly cost him his mobility for good, so I've been a bit compulsive about back health and core conditioning ever since. Still, it seems like an unnecessary risk to take. -Andreas I’m not so sure about the ’save your back’ part of what you’re suggesting. Mind you, it’s what I do on the water or on the beach if I don’t have a crank handy, and it works just as advertised. I still prefer using a crank, however. When you pushing out with your leg while putting pressure on your back through your harness, you’re putting a bit of a twist in your lumbar spine while compressing it. That kind of thing happens quite a bit in real life, as well as in windsurfing. It also is, according to PT friends of mine, a pretty good way to put some wear on the disks in your lumbar spine. So why put unnecessary wear on them?

Maybe I’m just a bit more paranoid than the average guy - my dad had a pretty bad case of a ruptured disk that nearly cost him his mobility for good, so I’ve been a bit compulsive about back health and core conditioning ever since. Still, it seems like an unnecessary risk to take.

-Andreas

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